Automatischer Ablauf einer Cue List

Started by Marionette, March 08, 2022, 08:15:44 PM

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Marionette

Hallo zusammen,

wir sind ein kleines Amateur-Marionettentheater in Bayern und ich bin dort für die Audio- und Licht(DMX) Technik zuständig. Neben Audiofiles (.mp3) für die Text- und Geräuschszenen verwenden wir einen DMX Controller (OBEY40) der über Midi (Note On) angesteuert werden kann. Bisher haben wir die Lichtsteuerung manuell (Knopfdruck) ausgelöst, was aber immer eine zusätzliche Person bindet. Vor einiger Zeit wurde mir zur Automatisierung dieser Prozesse die Software MultiPlay empfohlen.
Ich habe mir das Programm inzwischen installiert und eine Cue List zum Abspielen der Audio Files, sowie der Steuerung meines DMX Controllers (OBEY40) via MIDI Note On erstellt. Hat soweit alles funktioniert, nur habe ich jetzt das Problem, wie ich die einzelnen Cues einstellen kann/muss, damit sie nur einmal mit GO gestartet werden müssen und dann aber automatisch nacheinander bis zum Show End ablaufen. Könnt ihr mir da bitte weiterhelfen?

Vielen lieben Dank schon mal und
VG Wolfgang

Hello, everyone,

We are a small amateur marionette theater in Bavaria and I am responsible for the audio and light (DMX) technology there. In addition to audio files (.mp3) for the text and noise scenes, we use a DMX controller (OBEY40) that can be controlled via Midi (Note On). So far we have triggered the light control manually (press a button), but this always ties up an additional person. Some time ago I was recommended the MultiPlay software to automate these processes.
I have now installed the program and created a cue list for playing the audio files and controlling my DMX controller (OBEY40) via MIDI Note On. So far everything has worked, but now I have the problem of how I can/must set the individual cues so that they only have to be started once with GO and then run automatically one after the other until the end of the show. Can you please help me?

Many thanks in advance and
VG Wolfgang




EdK

Hello VB Wolfgang,

I hope I'm understanding your question correctly......

Are you wanting to automate the entire show so you only need to press GO once when the show starts?
If so.....although it's possible to do this....I wouldn't recommend it.  If something were to go wrong on stage or something gets delayed or occurs more quickly than normal,  there's no way to adapt to the situation 'cleanly'.

However, if you're just wanting to syncronize lighting to the music, that is possible.   It will require some planning.  For example:  If during a song you need to change lighting at specific points during a song,  that can be automated.   

OR....if you simply want to control lighting 'on demand' from Multiplay, that is also possible via Multiplay's hotkeys/shortcuts.

If you can provide an outline of what you're trying to do,  I'm sure I (or other users here) can help you out.

Personally, I've moved away from using MIDI commands and use OSC instead unless the hardware only supports MIDI.   I've done something similar when we were live streaming during the pandemic and needed to control scene changes in OBS from Multiplay. 

Ed



Windows 10 Home x64
Dell XPS 7590 Intel i7-9750H
16gb RAM - 1tb SSD
GeForce GTX 1650

Marionette

Hi Ed,

danke für deine Antwort. Das Ganze ist eigentlich recht easy aufgebaut. Die Beleuchtung soll nur mit den Audiofiles (mp3) synchronisiert werden. Wir arbeiten ausschließlich mit vorproduzierten Audio (mp3) Files. Das (Marionetten)Theaterstück besteht aus drei Bühnenbildern (= drei separate Shows), ein Bühnenbild hat jeweils zwischen 10 und 16 Einzelszenen (d.h. 10 bis 16 mp3-Files) Es kommt also alles als Playback vom PC, der über ein USB/MIDI Interface mit dem DMX Controller (OBEY40) verbunden ist. Die Lichtszenen werden über MIDI Note On Befehle gesteuert. Z.B. "00" startet die Lichtszene 1 auf Bank 1 usw.
Beispiel: Bühnenbild 1 besteht aus 16 einzelnen Szenen und 2 verschiedenen Lichteinstellungen/Lichtszenen: Start Audiofile1 + Licht1 -->Audiofile2 --> Audiofile3 --> Audiofile4 --> Wechsel auf Licht2 und Start Audiofile5 --> Wechsel Licht1 und Start Audiofile6 --> usw. Die Lichtwechsel finden also nur zu Beginn von bestimmten Audiofiles statt. Während eines Audiofiles findet kein Beleuchtungswechsel statt. Mein Problem sind die automatischen Übergänge von einem Cue zum nächsten.
Danke im Voraus

LG
Wolfgang


EdK

HI Wolfgang,

This may help you.  See attached screen shot.

The first entry is a MIDI cue.  If you look at the "Advance" column you will see "SP > Audio File 1"  which stands for "Start Play".   What this means is,  when you  start (GO) the MIDI cue, we're telling Multiplay to start playing the next cue which is "Audio File 1".   Both actions will take place at the same time. 

Look at the "Advance" column for "Audio File 1".  You'll see it says "EA > Audio File 2".  The "EA" stands for "End Advance".  What this will do is when "Audio File 1" is done playing, the cursor will advance to the next entry which is "Audio File 2" and wait there until you press "GO". 

The entry for "Audio File 2" also has "EA" in the ADVANCE column.  When "Audio File 2" is done playing, the cursor will advance to "Audio File 3" and wait there until you press "GO"

An alternative for "End Advance" would be "Start Advance".  What this will do is move the cursor to the next entry in the cue list before the current cue is done playing.   This can be handy if you need to start the next cue (GO) before the current one is done playing...or need two cues playing at the same time but you want to control when to start the next cue.  Another possible use for that is- lets say the current audio file contains 2-3 (or more) seconds of blank space at the end of the current track and you need to start the next cue before the current one is done playing.  This can come in handy if you need to start playing the next cue right away without having to wait until the blank space at the end of the current cue is done playing.  Multiplay plays the entire length of the track.  It doesn't assume that if there's no audio present that it's the end of the track.  This can come in handy if you don't have the ability to trim the audio file to remove the blank space at the end of the track.

Personally, I trim my tracks to end at the end of the audio (removing the trailing blank space).  This way, I can setup Multiplay to always use "End Advance" as the default.   This is of course your personal preference.

Keep in mind, if you use "Start Advance", the cursor will be positioned on the next track right away. If you accidentally press "GO" too soon, you'll have two (or more) tracks playing at the same time.

If you want to play Audio File 1, Audio File 2, Audio File 3, Audio File 4, automatically without having to press "GO" for each one,  you can set the "ADVANCE" function to "End Play".   What this will do is cause Multiplay to start playing the next track when the current track is done playing.

If you want to allow for some applause time between tracks that are automated this way,  you can enter values in "Pre-Wait" or "Post-Wait" to 2 or 3 seconds and Multiplay will wait that amount of time before actually playing the audio track.      If you use the "Pre-Wait" or "Post-Wait" values, you will notice those values in the "DURATION" column inside brackets. For example:  [3.0]  before or after the actual length of the track.  The progress bar during the Pre-Wait and Post-Wait  time is changed to a very narrow bar at either the top or bottom of the row (as appropriate) which gives you a visual indication that those values are currently in effect.

I suggest you play around with the various options I described above so you can get a better feel for how they work.  It's hard to document every detail here.

Ed










Windows 10 Home x64
Dell XPS 7590 Intel i7-9750H
16gb RAM - 1tb SSD
GeForce GTX 1650

Marionette

#4
Hi Ed,

vielen herzlichen Dank für deine ausführlichen Erläuterungen und die Hilfestellung. Ich werde deine Tipps umgehend ausprobieren und hoffe, dass ich die Show schon bald zum Laufen bringe.
Ich melde mich auf alle Fälle und gebe dir Bescheid. Wünsche dir bis dahin alles Gute und bleib gesund.

Thank you very much for your detailed explanations and the help. I'll try your tips right away and hope to get the show up and running soon.
In any case, I'll get in touch and let you know. Until then, wish you all the best and stay healthy.

VG Wolfgang

EdK

Happy to help.

I've been using Multiplay for several years.  David has done a fantastic job with the new version. So may new features, functions  and improvements that 2.5.5.0 didn't have.  Pretty much a re-write.  He's still working on updating the documentation which is a time consuming process.  I used to be in the computer business and documentation was the hardest part.    Here's what he has so far:
http://da-share.com/help/multiplay3/index.html
Of course it's still a work in progress.

David is very helpful as well as many of the other users here.  I just thought I'd reply to help you with some of Multiplay's basic functions.

Ed
Windows 10 Home x64
Dell XPS 7590 Intel i7-9750H
16gb RAM - 1tb SSD
GeForce GTX 1650

Marionette

Hi Ed,
ich hätte bitte noch eine Frage zur korrekten Steuerung meiner MIDI Cues. Beim OBEY 40 kann z.B. die Lichtszene 1 des Multiplexers 1 mit dem MIDI Befehl "00" ausgelöst werden, "01" für Szene 2 im Multiplexer 1 usw.
Wie muss ich denn dafür die MIDI-CUE Properties (Channel, Data1, Data2) einstellen? ::)  Anbei ein Screenshot meiner CUE Properties. Vielen Dank und schöne Grüße

Wolfgang

EdK

HI Wolfgang,

I'm not familiar with the OBEY 40 device but I did look into the user manual to see how MIDI is documented.

The MIDI Note On command has two parts.  The first part (DATA 1) is the actual 'note' and the second part (DATA 2) is the velocity.   In your case, velocity isn't used because the OBEY 40 is not a musical instrument like a keyboard.

I'm assuming when you say "Multiplexer" you actually mean "Bank"?

MIDI can be quite confusing at first unless you understand how computers functions and the intricacies of Bits and Bytes.

It appears that if you want  Scene 1 in Bank 1,  you would specify 0 in DATA 1. 
Scene 2, you would specify 1 in DATA 1
Scene 3, you would specify 2 in DATA 1
etc. up through Scene 8

If you need more than 8 Scenes, it appears you need to use Bank 2 and I would need to go into much more detail of what Bits and Bytes are, how they work and how OBEY 40 documented it.  It appears that they made the documentation more confusing than it needs to be. But, keep in mind, I'm not familiar with OBEY 40 so there may be a reason that I'm not aware of as to why they documented it the way they did.


DATA 2 can be ignored. It appears the OBEY 40 device  doesn't need it and ignores it anyway.

It also appears that NOTE ON means turn the light on and NOTE OFF turns the light off.

Keep in mind, MIDI was initially developed for musical instruments to be able to communicate with each other but other hardware manufacturers (like lighting control systems) use it to communicate with each other but use the established musical terminology.  For example:  NOTE ON is equal to LIGHT ON,  NOTE OFF is equal LIGHT OFF.   Velocity is not necessary for controlling lighting but for musical instruments, it specifies how hard you press a key on a keyboard.....press gently or press hard or up to 127 variations in between.

Hope this helps a little bit and I answered your question.  If not, let me know.

Ed




Windows 10 Home x64
Dell XPS 7590 Intel i7-9750H
16gb RAM - 1tb SSD
GeForce GTX 1650

Marionette

Hi Ed,

super, ich werde morgen wieder im Theater sein, um deine Informationen umzusetzen. Melde mich wieder! Vielen Dank für deine Mühe.

Viele Grüße
Wolfgang

EdK

Hi Wolfgang,

Just curious if you made any progress.

Ed
Windows 10 Home x64
Dell XPS 7590 Intel i7-9750H
16gb RAM - 1tb SSD
GeForce GTX 1650

Marionette

Hi Ed,
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ich habe es geschafft (dank deiner Hilfe)
Der OBEY 40 DMX Controller funktioniert. Es war zwar sehr viel Testaufwand, aber es hat sich gelohnt. Anbei einen Auszug aus der Cue List und ein Beispiel für eine MIDI Cue (Start von Szene 1 Bank 1).
Weißt zu, ab wann die neue Version von MultiPlay zur Verfügung steht?

Nochmals vielen herzlichen Dank für deine Hilfe und deine Mühe.
Herzliche Grüße aus Deutschland/Bayern

Wolfgang

EdK

HI Wolfgang,

Great!  Glad you've got it working.  MIDI can be a bit confusing at first.   I'm only using MIDI now from Multiplay if the gear I need to connect only supports MIDI.  Otherwise, I'm trying to use OSC whenever I can.

It's hard to tell what version your using from the screenshot but if you look in the Beta Testers section, David keeps it up to date and you can find version 3.   The old version 2.5.5.0 is pretty much retired.

Although David hasn't officially released version 3, it's quite stable. David will usually say something in the threads whether or not a specific 'release' is stable or not to use. I believe the current one is 176.  I know he made a lot of changes and added new features so he's not recommending using it in a LIVE situation.  FYI-  I've been using 166 for a while and it's quite stable and have used it in a couple shows.  I haven't upgraded to anything more recent to use in a LIVE situation yet.  In fact, I just downloaded 176 and testing it when I can.   Past few weeks been busy with a couple other project and getting cataract surgery.



   
Windows 10 Home x64
Dell XPS 7590 Intel i7-9750H
16gb RAM - 1tb SSD
GeForce GTX 1650